Curse

-rightuos- · May 07, 2008, 05:28 AM // 05:28

no to a level cap

however gw2 slows leveling itself by limited experience per kill, with an expansion higher levels can be obtained that way.

they already said pvp would be based on level so the playing field will always be even in that sense.

I really didnt get into the expansions as much as i should have using my main at the time entering into a new game already maxed just felt like grinding to finish the game.

As stated they dont need a level cap, just fix the leveling system so that in gw2 youll get to X level til the xp gain crawls so slow your almost stuck. Then with an expansion increase the xp gained with harder more advanced AI enemies. I think that way the game can grow a long time before it grows old, tiring, and boring.

pumpkin pie · May 07, 2008, 05:33 AM // 05:33

maybe arena net is planning someting else for us, different level caps for doing different thing

excerpt
"It's meant to be a learn-by-doing sort of situation--rather than have overly complex skills that take an excessive amount of brain matter to understand, players will learn less complicated skills that they will be encouraged to test out in any situation they can think of. What happens if you use this skill while jumping, or that one while surrounded by monsters? Who knows? Give it a whirl and find out! Strain referred to it as "emergent complexity," and if it works the way they say it will, I shall personally send them each a fruit basket."

tmakinen · May 07, 2008, 05:56 AM // 05:56

First of all, the number of available levels means nothing. Absolutely nothing. The next update could completely remove level cap from GW by counting every skillpoint beyond lv20 as another level, and nothing would happen except that the number floating above the head of my elementalist would change from 20 to about 1500. Max health and attribute points would still stay the same, and she wouldn't still do lolpwnage damage with every spell.

It's all about (1) how long it takes to reach the next level, and (2) how the benefits from gaining another level scale. ANet could raise the level and benefit cap to 100 in GW by dividing every experience range and level benefit by five, and very much nothing would still quite persistently happen. You'd get levels five times faster but the benefits would be five times smaller, and you'd reach lv100 just as fast as lv20 today, with the same max health and attribute points.

That said, the entire and fundamental idea of GW is that unlike in other MMOs you cannot tackle a problem just by throwing more levels to it. The leveling up is meant as apprenticeship and after that the real game begins. If GW2 abandons this design principle and either requires inane amount of work to reach maxed character stats or gives potentially unlimited benefits to those who are willing to grind XP 24/7 it will be just another bog standard MMO and not a worthy successor to the original GW.

Jam Jar · May 07, 2008, 06:02 AM // 06:02

Having no levels might be an idea. I mean then you HAVE to have skill.

Paul thy god · May 07, 2008, 06:07 AM // 06:07

NEVAR!!!! guild wars needs a cap for all us casual players, so we dont have to grind to get there. maybe an increased level cap would be nice i.e 50 or so, or even 100, but then they would have to make it easier to level up. Also as is is im barley thinking about getting GW2, mainly coz i have put so much effort into GW1, either that or ill wait a while after it comes out to buy it.

Pleikki · May 07, 2008, 06:14 AM // 06:14

30-40 would be Nice aslong No elitism and not much harder to lvl

Lord Sojar · May 07, 2008, 06:27 AM // 06:27

If you think about the current attribute system, it would work very very well applied to a no-level-limit system.

For example, say you wanted to increase your Fire Magic from 11 to 12. That requires an additional 20 attribute points. However, to increase your fire magic to 13, it would require an addition 25 points, and to go from 13 to 14, yet another 31 points.

So you see, at some point, a character that is lvl240 and a character that is lvl390 may not have very much difference. It might require an additional 700 attribute points to increase a given attribute by one additional rank. Granted, if all you did is grind, you might have 4-5 more attribute points in a given area, but it would take you 50x as much time to reach that point.

Therefore, I am fully in favor of no level cap provided they use the current attribute system, or something similar in scaling properties.

Drop of Fear · May 07, 2008, 06:31 AM // 06:31

level cap. but a very high one. say like lvl 100. with slim benefits in having it

MetalMan · May 07, 2008, 06:39 AM // 06:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by -rightuos-

however gw2 slows leveling itself by limited experience per kill, with an expansion higher levels can be obtained that way.

they already said pvp would be based on level so the playing field will always be even in that sense.

Erm... wait, what?

I translate this thread as "People with the expansions hit higher levels so the PvP will be balanced"

Can you say it another way, because that will UNBALANCE PvP. GW has been a PvP orientated game, and i expect GW2 to follow down a similar route. So, if PvP got dominated by Level 90s and everyone who doesn't want to get the expansion is level 80, then gg?

The only way i could see it working is if the extra levels give no bonus, but then they may as well be added to every game.

arcanemacabre · May 07, 2008, 06:58 AM // 06:58

I've said it before, and I'll say it again - an extremely high level cap, or none at all, is perfectly fine as long as there is no power difference beyond a crazily low point. Say, level 20-40, somewhere in there. However, there could still be small differences, such as new skill abilities (not necessarily more powerful, just different), and mostly cosmetic things like better skill animations, skin changes, etc. Not to mention, a pretty number that epeeners can show off, as they so love to do. It gives people something to work toward, without making it something you feel you absolutely have to have to have in order to 'keep up with the Joneses.' The more skilled level 20 can still kick the level 2,000 grinder's ass in world PvP - just the way it should be.

Axel Zinfandel · May 07, 2008, 06:59 AM // 06:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celestial_Kitsune

High level cap is imminent. The more important question is what scaling will be used for attributes?

No one even knows if they are skill keeping the same system, am I right?

aaje vhanli · May 07, 2008, 07:18 AM // 07:18

I don't see why people attach skill to level cap. Just because there's no level cap does not mean that characters will continue getting stronger. It just means that they would stop advancing at some point in the area that we're currently familiar with (such as attribute points) and, instead, would gain other (yet unknown) things that would help players feel like they are advancing that do not affect the skill-level of game play.

This has been mentioned countless times when concerning level cap.

As for comparing this idea to WoW... WoW has a level cap.

zwei2stein · May 07, 2008, 07:25 AM // 07:25

Yes. As low as possible. Also, what about no levels at all.

See, levels remove content from game, by making it obsolete.

-rightuos- · May 07, 2008, 07:28 AM // 07:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by MetalMan

Erm... wait, what?

I translate this thread as "People with the expansions hit higher levels so the PvP will be balanced"

Can you say it another way, because that will UNBALANCE PvP. GW has been a PvP orientated game, and i expect GW2 to follow down a similar route. So, if PvP got dominated by Level 90s and everyone who doesn't want to get the expansion is level 80, then gg?

The only way i could see it working is if the extra levels give no bonus, but then they may as well be added to every game.

Think of it in the sense of the low level arenas that exist now lvl 10 arena in kamadan and the max lvl 15 arena like in Yaks. They said they were going to implement that into GW2.

Arduin · May 07, 2008, 07:29 AM // 07:29

I'd settle for lvl 20, and for all the people you there wanting to fence with their big number, it can be more than 9000 for all I care. As long as the levels above 20 are only cosmetic.

Seriously, if you think levelling up is the goal of this game, you should already be playing something else.

AshenX · May 07, 2008, 07:41 AM // 07:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarc

I understand the reason 2, but dont you think the people that play 4-5 hours a day should be ahead then random guy that plays 1-2 hours a day?

Think if it like school, you take four years of college and get a good job. But someone that takes 8 years gets a better job. Why complain? He spent more time investing then you, why should he be on your playing field

I know the arguement "what about new players..", if they have no cap then make the gains past a certain level very minimal and not game breaking

If you play and practice more than he does then you should be a better player. That is the advantage to having more time to play.

The higher the level cap the more difficult it will be to join a group unless you are a very dedicated level grinder. Of course if they reduce the benefits gained at each level in order to spread things out a bit over more levels then the effect could be somewhat reduced.

The Bard · May 07, 2008, 07:41 AM // 07:41

I'd rather not have a level cap, but instead make it so you stop gaining benefits from level ups after, say level 50. Or perhaps, for pvp, do like they did in pokémon diamond and pearl with the battle tower, all levels are accepted but if you're over level 50 you will be temporarily reverted back to level 50 while you're battling, and when you're done battling your level goes back to what it was before.
Conclusion: don't have a level cap but stop or limit the benefits of leveling up after a certain point, I don't want imbawars

odly · May 07, 2008, 07:50 AM // 07:50

Reason for a level cap : People who enjoy playing multiple characters.
This means that not having a level cap would make it impossible to say : "This character is maxed out lets switch to another one."

My choosen alternative would be being able to change your primary as well so a single character would be all you needed.
Higher levels could then allow to unlock more proffessions and allocate attribute points to the attributes of those professions.
In that case being uncapped would be fine.

Higher levels would not make you more powerfull in se, just more versatile.

AshenX · May 07, 2008, 08:02 AM // 08:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baratus

Just a note, but half the people I have talked to left GW for WoW due to the cap. I am talking hundreds of players adding to the WoW population that I have spoken to, and God only knows how many others there are. Every other game in existence either has a high level that takes more than a day to reach, or allows for a higher level in the expansions. GW is the one game that stands out in this aspect and is one of the few areas of the game that I do not like.

I personally dislike the level cap in GW because after 20 there is no game. I have a 20 monk, 55 smiter and can solo almost everywhere including Mineral Springs and UW, and that's all there is to do, farm items and gold. I do the same with my warrior and am almost invincible. I guess the point is, levelling is FUN. More points to spend is FUN. Playing for months (average play time being two hours a day) to reach a high level is FUN.

The main reason I left GW for WoW a few years ago (I play GW again now) was that I could play and there was SO MUCH content to enjoy even after 60! First you spend months getting to 60, then months after that doing the raid areas! To top that, the expansion allowed you to go to 70, which was VERY slow-going for a normal player, but FUN. Levelling and having more choices is fun. GW has VERY few choices on attribute points and such, and you can hit 20 in about eight hours if you stick to it, not fun.

As for people who can't hit twenty in a week (seven days), they must not know how to play, and complaining about players who may have been there for years and attained a high level is stupid. Capping levels so that somebody who plays five minutes a day can actually see the end of a game is just dumb. I believe in a cap, but somewhere between fifty and ninety-nine would be good. Give us something that the casual player will enjoy for six months to a year. Casual players can afford at least two hours in the evening or split up throughout the day. Anything less is NOT casual and should not be used to judge play-style.

No offense but a higher level cap does not equal more content. One could increase the level cap in GW right now to 100 and it would not create mroe content it would just add even more grind to the game...."wow only 1 million more experience to get to level 90!!!"

I curently have a level 20 of each profession in the game and have had the opportunity to explore the various secondary permutations for each of them. Playing throught the storylines with very different character types, requiring very different playing styles, while still playing my ranger (my primary character) through 17 million xp has been possible because of a low level cap.

Were there no level cap (or a very high one) I would not have been able to experiment with many different options while remaining competitive or on par with the requirements for play in higher end areas.

As regards to the idea that there is nothing, or very little, to do after reaching level 20...No offense but there is always room for improvement in one's play. I am a much better ranger now than when I first reached level 20. Of course I would love more new content...but that is not a function of level cap but rather of new material.

My point here is that having a high level cap is not really relevant to content. Increasing the level cap does no more for having something to do in game than adding grind based titles.

Riot Narita · May 07, 2008, 08:48 AM // 08:48

The thing that I love about GW, that sets it apart, is that at level 20 playing the game is really about acquiring skills and choosing how to use them... instead of grinding levels to become more powerful, or farming for more powerful weapons/armour, or farming gold to buy uber weapons/armour.

They can set the level cap to whatever they like - I won't care as long as the above principle remains: No additional advantage gained beyond a certain level (and that level can be reached simply by completing missions and quests without repetition).

If people want to grind for higher levels, that's fine... likewise if it gives them access to vanity items like special armour and weapons, that's cool too - just as long as those items don't give them any actual advantage over lower levels.

I want A-Net to maintain people's interest by periodically adding new content, skills, items etc rather than setting gigantic level caps for people to grind for. That's what they intended from the start, isn't it?